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That Happy Certainty - Gospel | Culture | Planting
Book Reviews, Interview

Dealing With Disappointment – An Interview with Pastor & Author John Hindley

Life is often disappointing. And therefore disappointment can so easily be a feeling that comes to dominate our lives. That’s why I think it’s brilliant that pastor John Hindley has reflected on this issue, and how the Bible addresses it, and written a new book called Dealing with Disappointment – How to know joy when life doesn’t feel great. John has kindly taken some time out to answer a few questions on the blog about the issues covered by the book.

First-off John, some people might recognise your name as being the author of Serving without Sinking, which is arguably the best book written on how to play underwater tennis – sorry, lame joke. But tell us a bit about yourself, for those who haven’t got to know you.

file_znclmody7ffo33kqsa54ilov25zketbrI like the joke! It’s often referred to as Sinking without Serving, which is a whole different issue. As for me, I am a Yorkshireman originally but you wouldn’t know it from my accent. I grew up in a Christian home, moving around the country with my dad’s work as a bank manager. I would always have believed the facts of the gospel, but had no real faith in Christ growing up because I saw myself as good without him. I was a judgmental and hypocritical young man, quite like the older brother in Jesus’ parable in Luke chapter 15.

The Lord changed that while I was in my third year at university. I was in church, and the pastor preached a sermon on the death of Christ on the cross. The Spirit convicted me that I was a sinner, and for the first time I saw and felt the wonder of Christ dying in my place, carrying my sin, enduring the judgment that I finally saw I richly deserved to free me for himself. He saved me, twenty years ago now.

I am married to Flick, a delightful godly woman and a generous gift from my Father. We have three lovely girls, Daisy, Eliza and Sylvia who give me much laughter (and frustration!). I also get to serve as a pastor, which is a satisfying, exhausting and wonderful calling. Our church is called Broadgrace (www.broadgrace.org.uk), planted in 2010, and we meet in Coltishall in the Norfolk Broads. Being part of this church is also a blessing and gift to us.

On one level, Dealing with Disappointment sounds like a title born out of experience! Do you mind sharing a bit about what led you to put pen to paper with this particular book?

It is, but not that much of it is mine! My life has been remarkably easy and satisfying so far, although I think this helped me to understand the disappointment that often comes when we feel we have gained much of what the world can offer. Disappointment can come from a lack of something we desire (a promotion at work, for example) but it can also be the result of the emptiness when we find that the promotion didn’t give the satisfaction we hoped (and neither did buying our house, getting a new car, being married or having children).

lddis_medium3d-owjzx3f72odb7wzncbdbqs2tsscadwojThe experience that led me to write the book was simply the levels of disappointment I saw around me. With people I know locally, in the church and outside, and friends and family more widely, I saw huge disappointment. It is probably a symptom of getting older (I turned 40 as I was writing the book) but I saw a growing sense of despair among lots of people. Not an acute suffering, but the cynicism and bitterness that comes when there is no hope.

Before Norfolk, we lived in Manchester and served in a church with lots of young people, students and young workers. For many there were good things to look ahead to, like marriage, work, getting a house, going on a foreign holiday. The world held out a lot of hope. But now I know a lot of people in their thirties and forties as well as older and younger. Among them I see little hope. These dreams have either failed to materialise or, worse, they have been achieved, but not given the peace they promised.

In the book you talk about being ‘rightly disappointed’, which might seem a strange phrase. What do you mean by that and why is it important?

This is important because we need to understand disappointment if we are to see beyond it. When I began writing, I assumed that disappointment might simply be a form of idolatry. I thought it would be along the lines of, ‘I am disappointed because I am not married, and marriage is where joy and satisfaction lie’. The problem with this simple analysis is that the Lord is disappointed, and he is not an idolater! In Matthew 23v37, Jesus laments, ‘Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing’.

Jesus feels disappointment as Jerusalem fails to submit to his kind desire to gather and care for her. Disappointment is a right response to life in a world that the Lord has subjected to frustration as a result of the sin of Adam (Romans 8v20; Genesis 3v18). This world is disappointing, and we should feel it as such. There is wrong disappointment, and over disappointment with right things. The importance of seeing that we should be disappointed (perhaps moreso than we are!) is that it helps us see how we should see disappointment in the wider picture of Christ’s kingdom, how we stop disappointment becoming overwhelming.

We do that by looking to the future, to the day Christ returns and ushers in the resurrection age, the new heavens and the new earth. Then there will be no disappointment, and the disappointments we have carried will be redeemed and will become part of the heights of joy that we feel as we see Jesus and feast with him. There is more to it than hope, but hope is the first step on the path away from bitter disappointment. However great, however real, even however right our disappointments, they will not be the end of the story. Christ will. He will come for us, he will raise us from the dead, he will wipe away our tears and he will never disappoint us. He has bought this for us on the cross, and he has bought us for himself. He cannot fail us. He cannot disappoint us.

By talking about disappointment, I think you put your finger on a live issue for many of us, and yet it’s not one we perhaps freely acknowledge. How do you think as Christians and churches we can change that?

It is hard to talk about disappointment. You can ask your small group to pray that you would get a job, but it feels selfish to ask them to pray that you would get promoted to a senior position. It feels churlish to say you find your work dull if you know there are others with harder jobs. Even more tricky is that most of our disappointments are with people. We are disappointed at times with our husband or wife, children or parents, friends or family, church or colleagues. How do we share these things?

black-and-white-person-woman-girlIt is a hard question, but we must answer it. We must strive to have church families where we can talk about these hard things, where we can be honest. It doesn’t mean airing every disappointment with everyone, but we must be truly known by all and fully known by some. As far as we know ourselves anyway! This is part of the gift of the church, and also a terrifying challenge. To be known is liberating, and terrifying!

Imagine a church where there was no bitterness, no cynicism. Imagine a love so great that it could bear being disappointed and still love those who let you down. Imagine a love so great that it could disappoint someone terribly and believe the forgiveness they offer. This is the church, and it is no figment of the imagination but ours to grasp and be, by the grace of Christ.

Obviously, it’s one thing for Christians to acknowledge disappointment. Has writing this book changed whether you see disappointment as a way to engage unbelievers and share the gospel with them?

It has been hugely important in my personal witness. Talking about disappointment has shown me how prevalent it is, just below the surface of so many lives. I now enter into conversations assuming friends and family are disappointed, and with confidence that Christ offers real hope in the face of it.

pexels-photo-59196I was talking to a very honest man a couple of weeks ago, who thought that God simply wanted us to do our best, and that those who tried would go to a good place when they died. He was honest because he agreed with me when I said my problem was that I often didn’t try my best. When I then talked about the possibility of forgiveness and life with Christ eternally he simply said that forgiveness would be an incredible thing to have. He was disappointed with himself. He had done nothing unusually wicked but, like me, he knew he was not the man he ought to be or wanted to be. What hope it is to know that Christ has forgiven me the meanness that makes me enjoy seeing my wife hurt just because I think I’m right or want to exasperate my children so that I can feel righteous as I discipline them just because I have had a frustrating day.

I think that for sharing the gospel with my contemporaries, and probably with most people, assuming disappointment and leading with hope may well be a way of serving them by showing them just what Christ has done for us on the cross and given us in his resurrection.

John, thank you – this has been really thought-provoking stuff, so we really appreciate your time. Just to finish, you mention in the book that you’ve just turned 40, and obviously as a culture we often talk about mid-life crisis, or even quarter-life crises. What would you say to your 21-year old self in light of this issue?

I relied heavily on Solomon’s work in Ecclesiastes in writing the book, and I would encourage you to read it, as I am sure one of the reasons the Spirit wrote it was to help us understand disappointment and put our hope in Christ. My advice to my 21-year old self would be from chapter 12, verse 1:

‘Remember your Creator
in the days of your youth,
before the days of trouble come
and the years approach when you will say,
“I find no pleasure in them”’

We cannot avoid disappointment. Indeed, we should not seek to avoid it, as it is a right response to a broken world. The way to avoid it making us bitter or cynical, though, is to remember our creator. The heart of all Christianity is Christ. To live, to grow, to know peace, joy and hope is to know Christ. The more we see him, know him, follow him and delight in him, the more we will live in hope rather than bitterness of heart.

Remember your creator in the days of your youth, in the days of middle age, in the days of old age and in the day of death whenever it might come. For he has remembered you. He remembered you when you were dead in your trespasses and sins, he remembered you as he died your death and bore your sin. he remembered you when he called you out of darkness into the kingdom of light. He remembers you now and intercedes for you at the right hand of his Father. He remembers you, and he is coming back for you. He will not disappoint you, he will remember you, so remember him.


If hearing from John has whetted your appetite, I’d encourage you to pick up Dealing With Disappointment direct from the publisher, The Good Book Company, here. You can also follow John on Twitter.

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January 17, 2017by Robin Ham
Ministry, Interview

Responding with Compassion & Conviction in the midst of Gender Dysphoria – An Interview with Vaughan Roberts

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Given that transgenderism is such an important, unavoidable, and sensitive matter, I am grateful that Vaughan Roberts has taken the time and thought to write a helpful starting piece on the topic. Transgender is the first in The Good Book Company’s new Talking Points series, a collection of short reads designed to help Christians think, talk and relate to others with compassion, conviction and wisdom about today’s big issues. Vaughan is Rector of St Ebbe’s Church, Oxford, and he generously took the time to answer a few questions about the book and why he’s written it:

Vaughan, you’ve written many books over the last decade. Tell us what led you to choose this particular subject and to invest time and energy in writing Transgender?

It seems like transgender has become a huge issue in no time at all. There have always been people who struggle with gender identity—but now it’s become not simply private concern, but a massive public issue. We were finding lots of people at our church were grappling with it—how to relate to friends who are transitioning, how to talk to kids who are getting confusing messages at school. They just didn’t quite know what to think or how to respond. I saw a need to help people think biblically from a perspective of clear conviction but also biblical compassion and love.

It’s especially important for church leaders to be proactive on this issue. With any pastoral issue, if someone says, “Look, please could you help me on this?” You can’t really reply, “Actually, can you give me six months because I haven’t really thought about this issue before?” One of the reasons I wrote this book is to help people at least get a basic foundation of the Bible’s perspective. The book’s very simple, so there’s a long way to go beyond what’s in it—but I hope it might be a starting point. Then as leadership teams we can begin to discuss how we would respond if this situation occurred or that question was asked.

Of course this isn’t just a ‘topic’. This is about real people. As a pastor, how have you had to work through your own response to those experiencing gender dysphoria? And what might you begin to say to someone for whom this is a reality?

As you say, the first thing to remember is that this is a human being—so we’re not relating to someone with an issue, we’re relating to someone. So as I interact with them, most of the time we won’t be talking about gender. I’d try to relate to someone as normally as possible and just love them! That’s the starting point.

Beyond that, it would very much depend on my relationship with a person. If I hardly know them then it would be strange to talk about something so personal as their feelings about gender. If the relationship is much closer then it may well be something we talked about—and then again what I say will depend whether I’m talking with a Christian or a non-Christian.

If they’re not a Christian, their first need is to hear the gospel. I’d want to say that there is a God who made us and who loves us very, very much. But he takes seriously the fact that the world isn’t as it should be. The Bible is not saying there’s one group of people who’ve got issues—we’ve all turned away from God and the result is we’re all messed up. But God loves us so much that he sent his son to rescue us and put us back in relationship with him—and he’s promising a world in the future when everything is going to be put right. If we put our trust in Jesus and his death on the cross, the Holy Spirit will come into our lives and begin to change us. More and more we can know what it means to be truly human—alive in relationship with God.

tpgender_medium3d-2e5yu2oymq4nfocahrlrla3d3bwmnssfI guess some people might say that transgenderism is something that the Bible writers didn’t really know anything about – and so the implication is that the Bible is out-of-date on this matter and has nothing relevant to say. What would your response to that be?

A lot of it comes down to identity. Identity is one of the huge issues in our culture at the moment: Who am I? Increasingly our culture has defined identity by what I feel and think about myself. But that leads to real identity confusion and anxiety, because if I am who I feel myself to be, that’s pretty fragile! And I’ll always be worried about whether that fits with what you think I should be. Transgender comes down to the question, Who’s the real me? What my body says I am, or what I feel myself to be?

But the Bible has got hugely significant things to say about identity. Identity is not something I’ve got to find for myself. It’s given by God—who made me and loves me. I’m created in his image. The Bible says I’m a bodily human being—our bodies matter, because God made the material world. And if we are Christians, our identity is as men and women in Christ. The Bible offers a wonderfully solid identity—but it’s one that we need to communicate with sensitivity.

Vaughan, thank you for your time. Finally, what are your hopes and concerns for the wider church as we minister amidst our culture in the years and decades to come?

I think that when we see huge cultural changes and what’s going on in the media, there’s a danger we respond to the issue—and forget that behind the issue are people, created by God, and who are often hurting very much.

The other danger is that we respond emotionally. I think the old traditional response was an instinctive “Yuck!” response—“we can’t cope with this, we don’t like what’s going on”—without really thinking it through. Our world has gone completely the other way and is instinctively saying, “Yes! Whatever people want or feel, we’ve got to affirm that.”

I’d like to see the church avoid both. We need to respond with clear conviction. The Bible says that biological sex is not a thin veneer that’s just being painted over us—we are human beings who are male or female. But equally we need to show real compassion to people created by God—our first response to transgender people should be one of warm, loving welcome.

Transgender is not intending to be a comprehensive perspective, but it is an excellent starting point. Given the paperback is currently retailing for £2.54, don’t let me stop you from picking it up from the publisher here right away! You can also download a free discussion guide, as well as watch the promo below:

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October 12, 2016by robinham
Ministry, Interview

Primer, Theological ‘Fast-food’ & Staying Sharp Together – An Interview with David Shaw

Along with the inflatable crocodile and Kubb, I tend to find that summer holidays are a good time to prioritise packing some fiction into my suitcase. (Sadly life somehow feels too chaotic the rest of the year to follow through on a novel – or perhaps it’s just that now I get most of my story-telling through the medium of the screen rather than the page?) But one of the exceptions to the fiction rule in this summer’s suitcase was Primer. Published just twice a year, Primer is eighty (very readable) pages “designed to help those in church leadership stay theologically sharp and engaged”. And it’s brilliant!

david_shawPrimer was only launched last year, but I think it’s a gem of a resource for those in positions of leadership in a church to marinate on together (anyone from pastors, elders, wardens, small-group leaders, staff-team, PCCs, etc). Its editor is David Shaw, who is part-time Tutor in New Testament and Greek at Oak Hill College and part-time Theological Advisor for FIEC (The Fellowship of Independent Evangelical Churches). David kindly took the time to answer some questions about Primer and the vision behind it.

David, for those of who’ve not comes across Primer yet, what exactly is it? It’s not quite a magazine, and it’s not quite a journal – it definitely looks too cool for that. So tell us a little bit about the story behind Primer.

Primer-01-and-02Sure. The basic conviction behind Primer is that good theology is vital in church leadership. As Kevin Vanhoozer says, pastors are called to be “ministers of reality” – helping the church and the world to understand what God has done through Jesus Christ. To do that church leaders need to have a good grasp of theological truths and know how those truths shape life and ministry. One of the key aims of Primer then is to help anyone involved in ministry to have a better grasp of what God has done through Jesus Christ.

Primer is published by FIEC once every six months, taking one theological issue at a time. So far we’ve published issues on Scripture (Nov 2015) and the doctrine of sin (May 2016). In each issue we have articles that survey the contemporary scene, reflecting on the debates and reviewing the best resources available. We also re-print a classic historical text from church history on the topic in every issue. We want to help pastors draw down the treasures of church history, but we also know those texts can be intimidating. For that reason, we ask someone to annotate each historical text, putting it in context, explaining tricky bits, and reflecting on its significance for today. Then towards the end, there will be articles or interviews that focus more on the difference that topic makes to pastoral ministry and church life.

I guess a lot of us involved in church leadership might find time to attend a couple of conferences each year, perhaps making it through the occasional book (and starting a few more!). In the busyness of ministry the idea of ‘Further Reading’ often seems limited to flicking through whatever blog posts and online articles come our way! Why would you say Primer is worth investing in?

Great question! Two things to say here. First of all, because good theology is central to church leadership we want to encourage church leaders away from that kind of online fast food. There’s lots of good stuff online of course, but it’s often overwhelming, distracting and disconnected. In addition, most theological issues can’t be dealt with in 140 characters or a blog post. They do take time, and so we want to encourage people to settle down and dig a bit deeper. We’ve even tried to help that in the design of Primer – it’s supposed to feel like something you enjoy, value, and spend time over. On the other hand we know church leaders are under pressure and that’s why we worked hard to save them time by giving them an 80 page digest that focus on one topic, boils down the issues and keeps the realities of ministry in view. That’s why we hope it’s worth investing in, putting the kettle on, and pulling up a chair.

Who would you say Primer is for?

So far I’ve been talking about church leaders and others involved in ministry. We have written it with them in mind, but Primer is also designed to be a training tool to raise up new leaders. The artwork and layout make the topics accessible, but it’s stretching enough to train men and women to think and serve with a clearer theological framework. There’s also a website (primerhq.com) which has discussion resources for each article.

It’s been a few months now since Primer was launched. What’s your take on how it’s been received – and how are churches are using it?

We’re still working hard to get the word out and to help people understand what Primer is – as you say it falls somewhere between a magazine, journal and textbook) but we’ve been really pleased to hear how Primer has been received. I’ve heard from many church leaders how much they appreciate the combination of depth and the practical outworkings of doctrine. I’ve heard of pastors reading it with their assistants, elders or leadership teams, and some church book groups using it too.

For your second and latest issue you’ve focused on the topic of sin. In some ways that seems quite a bold option. Maybe we think we don’t particularly need to read 80 pages about sin, or we might just have reservations about suggesting something on that topic to our leadership team. What made you choose this emphasis? And what would you say to someone who feels the pull of those responses? 

primer 2I recently read that “it is impossible to have an adequate conception of sin without an adequate conception of God.” I think the reverse is true as well. We will not be able to understand who God is and how amazing the gospel is until we grasp the reality of our sin. In that way understanding sin fuels worship. That would be a good reason to spend time thinking about it. Another is that we don’t often reflect on how to communicate the reality of sin. This was a particular focus in that issue of Primer. So there are articles that focus on how we can better communicate the Bible’s rich and varied account of sin, and there are articles that help us engage with issues like addiction and a ‘victim culture’ that denies sin and thinks everything wrong with the world is someone else’s fault.

One of the things I’ve enjoyed about the two issues so far is the blend of the types of articles: interview, book review, pastoral issues. What’s the thinking behind that?

Basically we want Primer to be a one-stop shop for whatever doctrine we’re covering. You can find book reviews and academic articles about topics, but it’s really hard to find something that combines depth with coverage of the best resources of past and present and rubs all that in to church life.

Absolutely – and I think you’re nailing it. So tell us what we can look forward to with Primer in the future?

The third issue (due out in Nov 2016) will be on the topic of gender and sexuality, with contributions from Ed Shaw, Sam Allberry, Sharon James, and Alastair Roberts. We’ll be looking in depth at Genesis 1-2 to see how that speaks to the issues of homosexuality, same-sex marriage and transgenderism. Articles will also outline the ways in which Christians are responding to these issues and help us wrestle with the medical, theological and public policy aspects of them.

The fourth issue (May 2017) will be on the doctrine of justification in the year that will see the 500th anniversary of Luther’s 95 theses. We’ll have Matthew Barrett, Gregg Allison and David Starling among others helping us to understand the history of the doctrine and its significance for the Christian life and ministry.

Thanks for your time David. Just finally, for someone looking to get hold of Primer, or perhaps order a few copies for the leadership team, what’s the best way to do that?

You can order Primer from The Good Book Company, and you’ll find it on bookstalls at Keswick, Word Alive, the EMA and other Christian conferences.

You can follow David on Twitter here.

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September 23, 2016by robinham
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